It's been some time since I did part one of this walk to faith, so it's time I updated my thoughts. I left part one, in which I explained that I don't believe in sin, with the major question of why, then, did Jesus come to earth if it wasn't for our salvation.
I've had my answer for a while in my mind, but wanted the time to think it through a little more and possibly research my reasoning.
It's interesting...that word reasoning. One typically doesn't think of reason in the same thought as religion and/or faith. But reasoning and intellect is exactly how Gnostic Christians practice their worship of God. In fact, Jesus followed Gnostic teaching dating back to when he studied with the Essenes.
I've only scratched the surface on Gnostic Christianity, but so far I'm in agreeance with most of their teachings. Most of what I've learned so far comes from, Sylvia Browne, an author and psychic that I read regularly, as much as "regularly" is for me. I've also checked the Gnostic Christianity website to verify some of what I've read.
The major disagreement that I find so far is that they believe Jesus was not the son of God, any more than we are are the sons and daughters of God. Gnostics tend to believe that Jesus merely was born more in tune with God. Sylvia Browne refers to Jesus as a Direct Report that thus far was the only person to have direct contact with God and could plainly hear the voice of God.
Without researching and validating my hypothesis, something Gnostics strongly follow, I believe that Jesus was God in the form of man. I'm certainly willing to amend my belief on that as I research more(which admittedly may be a long time...I do have to work and raise a family after all). This belief that Jesus was God could come from Bible teachings, though I only recently discovered that some Christians believe this, but possibly just because I can't conceptualize that Jesus was basically the same as you or I...just with more "powers". Also, there is a quote on the Gnostic website, "As we are, God once was. As God is, we will become." I don't know if this is scripture, but it seems to say that God was once a human, and likewise we will return to spirit form after our human life here on earth. It stands to reason that God would want to experience what it like for us while we are on Earth...to feel the pain, anger, joy, pain, and the plethora of other human obstacles that we must deal with here.
What I do believe, just as Gnostics teach, is that the reason for Jesus coming to earth was to teach us of an all-loving God, very different than the God of the Old Testament. This was His main message to the masses throughout and His life work, so to speak. Using some of the same reasoning that I used for disbelieving in the very concept of sin, it doesn't make sense to me that someone would need to die to protect a Father's children from Himself. A Father that loves us all unconditionally...an unconditional love that we can't even really conceptualize. How does it stand to reason that he'd deny us from His kingdom? Quite simply...it doesn't.
Some believe that Jesus didn't even die on the cross. Wouldn't that shatter everyone's world if it were true? Not if you don't believe that Jesus' purpose was to die for our "sins", but instead believe that He came to enlighten us to the omnipotent, unconditional love of God. If you believe His life's work was to teach us of God, then how and when he died is rather irrelevant.
So...to summarize thus far: Since God made us like Him, He provided us with the perfect knowledge that we will be with Him again. Unconditional love. The unconditional love we have for our own kids gives us the exact insight we need to understand that God could and would never deny us access to Him...that sin is a silly concept derived by people who wanted to use fear to control others. Yet Jesus was clearly important to His plan. But if it stands to reason that there is no "sin" they why did Jesus come to earth? Jesus didn't come to "wash us of our sins", His purpose had to have been what He taught: that we are loved unconditionally. In fact, love is His vision for how the world is to live. Unfortunately this message was lost in the hoopla that we needed to be "saved".
So now what? I could say that the next step was to study the apocolypse and Judgement Day. But I don't think that's in God's "Plan". In fact, I don't think God has a "plan" in the sense that He has things He wants to do. He knows what will happen, but it's not His job to control what will happen. Think about it...how cruel would it be to have a puppet master as our God? Someone that sits in Heaven deciding whose life to affect for the better or worse. That's cruelty. The unconditional love is that He is there for us...waiting when we arrive Home to tell him of what we "learned that day at school".
I'm just now realizing that there's so much more that I need to learn. It's clearly not enough that my Father loves me unconditionally and will welcome me with open arms when I'm done with this human body. Complacency is insulting...which is the last thing we'd want from anyone else, so why be complacent in my learning here on earth.
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“A Father that loves us all unconditionally...an unconditional love that we can't even really conceptualize. How does it stand to reason that he'd deny us from His kingdom? Quite simply...it doesn't.”
-- Unconditionally… So even if I deny his existence, I will be forgiven. I like the way that sounds because the bible says differently.
“… omnipotent God.”
--- You need to comment on my free will post. ;o)
http://rocketstarinmpls.blogspot.com/2006/11/free-will-or-omnipotent-god.html
“Someone that sits in Heaven deciding whose life to affect for the better or worse. That's cruelty. The unconditional love is that He is there for us...waiting when we arrive Home to tell him of what we "learned that day at school".”
-- Here, here.
I wish other believers held your views. Being that you are picking and choosing what to believe out of Christianity (sin, apocalypse etc…), how do you reconcile that with the belief that the Bible is the word of God (If you do, I am not sure of that as I think you may believe that the Bible was just written by men [which it was ;o) ] and tries to portray what God’s word is because how can some of it be true and not other parts?
Nice post mad Hoosier.
-- Unconditionally…So even if I deny his existence, I will be forgiven. I like the way that sounds because the bible says differently.
Basically, but not necessarily forgiven, I don't think. At least not forgiven, in the sense that you'd need to be forgiven to be allowed into Heaven. This is the way it makes the most sense to me: If one of my daughters ran away, for whatever reason, basically denying my existance...and then, for whatever reason, decided she wanted to come back home...I'd gladly welcome her with open arms. It wouldn't necessarily even be forgiveness; I love her so much, I'd gladly lay my life down to save hers. That's our version of unconditional love. Multiply that love times a hundred, and that's the magnitude of love God has for us. It's just love. It doesn't matter if we believe in Him or not...it doesn't matter if we talk/pray to Him or not...He loves us all just the same. I think, like any parent, it would be optimal if we would acknowledge Him and talk to him...but it's not a condition for His love.
Unfortunately, you're right...certain teachings and definitely interpretations are contrary to that thought. That's why I tend to believe, as Gnostics do, that the Bible has been changed throughout the years, either by wrong interpretations from language differences, or by the Church which wished to control the masses with it's teachings.
For instance, Gnostics believe strongly in a duality of God...both a masculine and femenine aspect to God. Just as Wiccans believe in a Mother Earth, Gnostics believe similarly. But it's certainly within the realm of possibility that the Church edited female leaders out of the Bible to exercise control over women.
“… omnipotent God.”
--- You need to comment on my free will post. ;o)
I'll take a look at it, though I'm not sure the exact point of view on free will from the Gnostic point of view. It's definitely something that I'll be looking over in the future.
It's funny...I picture you being a Gnostic type of believer, if you ever were to believe. I have leaned that way for some time now, but what I try to put forth in my arguments is from a traditional Christian perspective, since that's what I know best.
For instance...I don't personally believe in Proposition 8. But I also don't agree with some of the ways that people have attacked those that do believe in Proposition 8...so in my discussions with you, I've tried to argue the other side to try to get some people to at least try to view things from a different perspective.
“Someone that sits in Heaven deciding whose life to affect for the better or worse. That's cruelty. The unconditional love is that He is there for us...waiting when we arrive Home to tell him of what we "learned that day at school".”
-- Here, here.
I used to believe more that God affects things if we ask for His help...or that things are "His plan".
I don't believe that as much now, and I'm not sure exactly why. It has to do with the whole puppet master explaination. It definitely doesn't make sense that he does things for some people and not for others...perhaps not even through prayer, though I'm not positive about that, as it goes against everything we are taught as Christians.
I don't know if Gnostics believe this, or if it's just a Sylvia Browne thing, but she says that each of us plots the things we want to accomplish while on Earth with God before we come here(were we are born, what we want to do, what challenges we want to face, etc.). This agreement with God is what allows for the broad strokes of happenings in our lives. The so-called "judgement day" is when we meet with God and discuss what we learned while we are on Earth...how close we came to our goals and the like.
Of course since all of these things occur on a much higher level than we are capable of comprehending as humans, we don't consciously remember these things.
Sylvia Browne explains that when we come to earth, since it's such a treacherous trip, we have spirit guides, angels, etc. to help us when needed on Earth. It is those things, and not God directly, that provide the so-called miracles many people witness.
Now, of course all of this seems air tight at the same time not verifiable...which is why I'm going to start studying on Gnosticism, as they say that the things they believe in are reasonable and verifiable....so we shall see.
Sorry to have answered each of these seperately...I just figured it would be easier. I definitely don't have all the answers, but believe now more than ever that what many of us are taught in church isn't completely accurate. It may have some of the broad strokes right, but it is way too narrow in vision for me. I'm hoping Gnosticism is the answer to complete how I've felt about God for a long time.
I wish other believers held your views. Being that you are picking and choosing what to believe out of Christianity (sin, apocalypse etc…), how do you reconcile that with the belief that the Bible is the word of God (If you do, I am not sure of that as I think you may believe that the Bible was just written by men [which it was ;o) ] and tries to portray what God’s word is because how can some of it be true and not other parts?
I think I touched on this in a previous answer, when I said it's within the realm of possibility that the Bible was lost in translation, as it were, and edited to increase power over the masses...particularly during the Dark Ages.
My thinking falls in line with that train of thought. Many people say that God wouldn't allow "His word" to be edited or changed in any way. But using the mere notion of reason that Gnostics speak of, by the reasoning of free will alone, it allows many ways in which the Bible could have been changed over time. To say that He wouldn't allow free will to affect the Bible goes back the puppet master argument...which we have already reasoned doesn't hold water.
Sylvia Browne says to take what you wish and leave the rest. Again, that sounds easy to say and leaves room for no personal accountability. But one could also argue that it leaves room to constantly challenge your beliefs.
I think that in the world that we live in, it's ok for people to pick and choose, as it were, if it allows them to feel closer to God and be a better person.
I don't envision this world surviving long enough to see the vast majority embrace the most important message of love in Jesus' messages and letting that be our unifier. But if we would all live by the single code of "Love Thy Neighbor As Yourself" oh what a world we'd live in.
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